In this year-end episode, Loren Richmond Jr. and Martha Tatarnic reflect on leadership, vulnerability, and the pressures pastors are carrying into the new year.

They discuss how leaders navigate vulnerability in public roles, including the challenge of knowing what to share, what to hold privately, and how unresolved pain can unintentionally shape preaching and leadership. The conversation addresses the tension between honesty and responsibility, especially when leaders are still processing their own questions or struggles.

Loren and Martha also talk about spiritual practices that have become increasingly important to them, particularly shared prayer and the Daily Office as grounding rhythms amid institutional anxiety and uncertainty. They reflect on how decline, fatigue, and pressure to perform can distort leadership, and why steadiness and formation matter when outcomes are unclear.

Topics include:

• Vulnerability and disclosure in pastoral leadership

• The difference between honesty and oversharing

• Prayer and the Daily Office as stabilizing practices

• Institutional anxiety and leadership pressure

• Leading faithfully without clear outcomes

👉 Subscribe to the Future Christian Podcast for ongoing conversations about leadership, theology, and the future of the church.

 

Mentioned Resources:

📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/

📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/

📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/

🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/

 

Supporting Sponsors:

Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. 

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Dennis Sanders – Producer

 

 

SEO / Keywords

Loren Richmond Jr., Martha Tatarnic, church leadership, pastoral leadership, vulnerability in leadership, spiritual practices, Daily Office, prayer rhythms, Christian formation, ministry fatigue, church decline, institutional anxiety, faith and leadership, pastors and ministry leaders, Future Christian Podcast

What happens when deconstruction becomes an identity—and woundedness becomes a platform?

In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with pastor and writer Tara Beth Leach about the growing online ecosystem where deconstruction is monetized, anger is rewarded, and discipleship is often replaced by endless dismantling.

Tara Beth shares why she believes some deconstruction is necessary (especially as faith matures), but warns that deconstruction without reconstruction can become a spiral that forms people in cynicism rather than hope. She describes how churches can respond to cultural crises without becoming “statement churches,” why partisan politics becomes idolatrous, and how practices like liturgy and theology formation can subvert polarization and re-form the Christian imagination.

In this conversation, you’ll hear about:

• Why online deconstruction and local church reality are often very different

• The danger of mistaking deconstruction for discipleship

• How algorithms reward outrage and shape Christian formation

• Why Gen Z is often hungry for embodied, communal faith

• Liturgy and slow formation as a pastoral response in a divided age

• The difference between charisma and character—and what churches celebrate

• Supporting women in ministry: why men often “call out” people who look like them

• Tara Beth’s “G.R.E.A.T.” morning prayer practice and her book The Great Morning Revolution

 

Tara Beth Leach is a pastor, preacher of the Word, and writer. She speaks widely at conferences, retreats, and universities across the country on Women in Ministry, Church Leadership, and the call to be a Radiant Witness. She is the Senior Pastor at Good Shepherd Church in Naperville, IL and previously served at Christ Church in Oakbrook and as Senior Pastor of First Church of the Nazarene of Pasadena (”PazNaz”) in SoCal. She is a graduate of Olivet Nazarene University and Northern Theological Seminary and has authored three books, including Emboldened and Radiant Church. Tara Beth is the co-founder of Propel Ecclesia and is also the co-host of The Pastors Table podcast. She has two beautiful and rambunctious sons and has been married to the love of her life, Jeff, since 2006.

 

Mentioned Resources:

📱 Find Tara online @TaraBethLeach

🟧 Tara's Substack: https://substack.com/@tarabethleach

🌐 Tara's  Website: https://tarabethleach.com/

🎧 Tara's Podcast: The Pastors Table Podcast

📖 Tara's Book: The Great Morning Revolution

 

Supporting Sponsors:

Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.

Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. 

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

 

SEO / Keywords

Tara Beth Leach, deconstruction, discipleship, church hurt, Christian formation, Gen Z church, Christian nationalism, partisan politics idolatry, pastoral leadership, preaching in a divided age, liturgy, school of theology, Christian imagination, cancel culture, call-out culture, family systems theory, Jonathan Haidt Anxious Generation, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

What would happen if churches stopped talking about money with guilt, shame, or fear—and started talking about vision, impact, and opportunity instead?

In this episode, Loren interviews Jason Hanselman, Donor Relations Director and longtime pastor, missionary, church planter, and fundraiser. Jason shares why asking people for money is, surprisingly, one of his most deeply spiritual practices, and why churches must rethink the way they talk about giving if they want to cultivate generosity rather than anxiety.

Together they explore:

• Why asking for money can be a spiritual experience for donors and leaders

• How childhood experiences shape our money scripts

• Why guilt-based “money talks” cause people to disengage

• How nonprofits have shifted donor expectations—and why churches must catch up

• How to make giving personal, relational, and meaningful

• Why younger adults don’t lack commitment—they lack invitation and clarity

• How segmenting, storytelling, and vision casting can transform a giving culture

• Why many churches need to simplify their structures, clarify their mission, and make compelling asks

• How capital campaigns can tie internal needs to external impact

Jason offers honest, practical, field-tested wisdom for pastors, stewardship teams, and anyone responsible for raising money in a ministry context. If you want to cultivate a healthier, more joyful, more spiritually grounded approach to giving, this conversation will give you the tools to start.

 

Jason Hanselman currently serves as a Donor Relations Director with Mission Aviation Fellowship. His ministry experience spans more than 25 years. He has led in a variety of capacities in kingdom-building roles as a pastor, missionary, church planter and fundraiser. Jason was born and raised in Denver Colorado where he met his wife Mary - they’ve been married for 32 years. He holds a Bachelor’s degree in Ministry and a Master of Arts degree in Education. Jason’s goal is to partner with other Kingdom minded individuals and churches to raise enough resources to make it possible for them to fund their vision and increase their impact. Jason enjoys spending time with his family on hikes and in art museums. Jason and Mary raised their three children in Boise, Idaho: Naomi (25), Grace (23) and Solomon (20). When he has extra time, Jason is a portrait artist and an avid sports fan.

 

Mentioned Resources:

🌐 Jason's Website: https://fundyourvision.my.canva.site/

📧 Jason's Email: jasonfyv@gmail.com

🎧 Podcast Episodes Referenced: Sheryl Johnson

🎧 Podcast Episodes Referenced: JJ Peterson

🎧 Podcast Episodes Referenced: Mike Cosper

🎧 Podcast Episodes Referenced: Michelle Van Loon

 

Supporting Sponsors:

Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.

Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. 

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

 

SEO / Keywords

church fundraising, generosity, stewardship campaign, donor relations, spiritual fundraising, money and faith, church giving, nonprofit fundraising strategies, Mission Aviation Fellowship, fundraising without guilt, money scripts, younger donors church, capital campaign ideas, storytelling for churches, Loren Richmond Jr, Future Christian Podcast

What does youth ministry look like when the world — and young people — are changing faster than ever?

In this in-person episode recorded at Broomfield United Methodist Church, host Loren Richmond Jr. sits down with longtime student ministries director Mike Orr to talk about faith formation, Gen Z and Gen Alpha, belonging, spiritual maturity, and what it really means to cultivate community in a post-Christian culture.

With warmth, honesty, and decades of ministry experience, Mike reflects on:

Highlights from the Conversation

• His early spiritual experiences and how actual transformation — not willpower — shaped his faith.

• The surprising power of belonging-first ministry for Gen Z & Gen Alpha.

• Why emotionally coercive youth ministry of the 90s left deep marks — and how churches can do better.

• How to hold space for students with radically different political or cultural views.

• Why youth ministry should never be about indoctrination, but about helping young people own and explore their faith.

• How to handle deconstruction as a natural part of spiritual growth.

• The crisis facing young men — and how to model a healthier version of Christian masculinity.

• Why the future of church isn't about producing spiritual “products,” but creating a context where real faith can flourish.

• The essential role parents play in forming faith, whether they realize it or not.

• His hope for Christianity: “Keep adding leaves to the table. There’s room for everyone.”

This is a rich, grounded conversation about what actually works in youth ministry today — and what kind of church the next generation is longing for.

Mike Orr has been a youth worker since the late 1990's, serving churches in Pennsylvania, Connecticut, California, and Colorado. He earned his MDiv from Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena, California. For over 10 years he has been the Director of Student Ministries at Broomfield United Methodist Church, located in the northern suburbs of Denver, CO. He lives with his wife and 3 dogs in Denver, CO. He has written zero books. 

 

Mentioned Resources:

🌐 Mike's Church: Broomfield UMC

🎧 Podcast Episodes Referenced: Andrew Root

🎧 Podcast Episodes Referenced: Quiet Revival

🎧 Mike’s Podcast: Tapestry Talk

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

 

Supporting Sponsors:

Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.

Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. 

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

 

Keywords / SEO Tags

youth ministry, Gen Z faith, Gen Alpha spirituality, belonging in church, student ministries, Mike Orr Broomfield UMC, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr, deconstruction and faith, progressive youth ministry, family faith formation, modern youth ministry challenges, Charlie Kirk Christianity, masculinity and church, spiritual formation for teens, church and political identity, Christian nationalism youth, Wesleyan sanctification, teen mental health church

 

 

How can a historic church navigate a rapidly changing world without losing its soul?

In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, host Martha Tatarnic speaks with Archbishop Shane Parker, the newly elected Primate of the Anglican Church of Canada, about leading through transition, discernment, and hope for the church’s future.

Archbishop Parker shares the story of his unexpected election, reflecting on themes of surrender, vocation, and guiding change rather than being changed by circumstance. Together, they explore what it means to lead faithfully in a post-Christian context—one where the church no longer holds cultural prominence but still holds deep spiritual purpose.

They discuss:

• The evolving role of Christianity in Canadian society

• What it means to be “first among equals” in Anglican leadership

• The spiritual practice of personal prayer and community intercession

• Why some leaders are called to stay instead of move on

• The challenge of guiding change before it overtakes the church

• How to reimagine church structures for relevance and sustainability

• The importance of friendship, pastoral care, and gathered community in thriving congregations

• His hope that the future of Christianity will embody the courage, compassion, and justice of Christ

Parker offers both realism and hope: that the Anglican Church can rediscover its vitality by focusing on community, worship, and service — not nostalgia or institutional weight.

Archbishop Shane Parker was elected the 15th Primate of the Anglican Church of Canada on June 26, 2025, and installed on June 29, 2025, at St. Paul’s Cathedral in London, Ontario. Prior to being elected Primate, he had served as the Bishop of the Anglican Diocese of Ottawa since 2020. Before that, he was dean of the Diocese of Ottawa and rector of Christ Church Cathedral for two decades. Born to Irish parents in Edmonton, Alberta, he grew up in western Canada. He worked as a labourer for several years before embarking on undergraduate and graduate studies in sociology at Carleton University. After working as a professional sociologist, he studied theology at Saint Paul University. He was ordained as a priest in 1987 in the Diocese of Ottawa, later serving as the diocesan archdeacon.  Parker has an honorary doctorate from Saint Paul University, where he has served as a part-time professor of pastoral ministry and chairs its Anglican Studies Advisory Committee. A collection of his pastoral essays was published by Novalis in a book called Answering the Big Questions. He is a recipient of the Interfaith Ottawa Award, for devoted service to promoting interfaith dialogue and cooperation. Parker is married to Katherine Shadbolt, a lawyer specializing in family law and mediation. He has three adult children and three grandchildren. He is handy, enjoys physical work and is most comfortable in natural places.

 

Mentioned Resources:

🌐 The Anglican Church of Canada: https://www.anglican.ca/

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

 

Supporting Sponsors:

Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.

Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. 

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What do you do when life falls apart—and you have no idea what to do next?

In this heartfelt episode, Loren Richmond Jr. speaks with Rev. Dr. Angela Williams Gorrell, theologian, researcher, and author of Braving Difficult Decisions: What to Do When You Don’t Know What to Do and Always On: The Gravity of Joy. Drawing from her own experience of profound grief and transformation, Angela shares how surrender, acceptance, and spiritual practices like meditation can open us to God’s presence—even in silence.

Together, they explore:

• The difference between grasping for control and living in surrender

• How to accept reality as it is without losing hope

• Why prayer isn’t preparation for action—it is action

• Learning from feelings as information, not final truth

• What it means to trust that nothing is wasted in God’s economy

• How pastors and church leaders can find peace and purpose amid decline or loss

• Why healing and joy are still possible, even after tragedy

Whether you’re navigating personal loss or leading through uncertainty in ministry, this conversation offers honesty, theological depth, and hard-won wisdom for finding grace when life doesn’t go according to plan.

Rev. Dr. Angela Williams Gorrell is a speaker, author, and consultant. She has taught at several schools including Yale and Baylor University. Media sources such as the New York Times, NPR, and the Washington Post have highlighted her research. Dr. Angela is the author of always on, The Gravity of Joy, and a new book, Braving Difficult Decisions: What to Do When You Don’t Know What to Do. She’d love to connect with you on Facebook or Instagram @angelagorrell

 

Mentioned Resources:

🌐 Her website: https://www.angelagorrell.com/

📱 Her socials: @angelagorrell

📖 Her book: Braving Difficult Decisions

🎧 Episodes Referenced: Heather Thompson Day

🎧 Episodes Referenced: Martha Tatarnic

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

 

Supporting Sponsors:

Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.

Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. 

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

 

Keywords / SEO Tags

Angela Williams Gorrell, Braving Difficult Decisions, Always On The Gravity of Joy, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr., Christian leadership, spiritual direction, surrender to God, prayer and healing, faith through suffering, meditation and Christian spirituality, grief and resilience, trauma and faith, pastoral care, nothing wasted in God’s economy, mainline church leadership, church decline and hope, progressive Christian spirituality

 

What does it mean to be the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in a world where shared language about faith, salvation, and community seems to be slipping away?

In this roundtable episode of the Future Christian Podcast, host Martha Tatarnic is joined by Loren Richmond Jr., Dennis Sanders, and David Emery for a deep conversation on the past, present, and future of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). Together they wrestle with what “No Creed but Christ” means today—and how this historic movement can renew its theological identity in a rapidly changing culture.

This conversation explores:

• Why “No creed but Christ” was once revolutionary—and what it might mean now

• How Disciples’ emphasis on inclusion and open communion can recover deeper theological grounding

• The tension between progressive activism and theological clarity

• The role of preaching, formation, and leadership in shaping discipleship

• Why local churches—and not denominational structures—are key to renewal

• Signs of hope and new life emerging in Disciples congregations across North America

If you’ve ever wondered how denominations can stay rooted in the Gospel while adapting to modern realities, this episode offers an honest, hopeful look at faithful innovation and renewal in the mainline church.

Dennis Sanders is an ordained Disciples of Christ minister and lead pastor of First Christian Church in St. Paul, Minnesota.  A native of Flint, Michigan and big fan of the Detroit Tigers and Lions, Dennis is also a communications specialist for a Lutheran congregation in the Twin Cities and is the host of the Church and Main podcast, which tries to live out Karl Barth’s quote of reading the Bible and the newspaper and interpreting the news through the Bible.  Dennis lives in Minneapolis with his husband Daniel and their cats.

David Emery is the Lead Pastor of Harvard Avenue Christian Church in Tulsa, OK. David is a passionate preacher, compassionate pastor, and adept leader whose understanding of the Gospel and vision for the church help our congregation fulfill our mission to live and love like Jesus. David has a reputation for growing churches, reaching new people, and transforming lives in every church he has served throughout his ministry, which includes congregations in Arkansas, Texas, and Kentucky. He holds a Master’s of Divinity from Vanderbilt. If you were to ask David what his favorite scripture passage is, he would tell you: “Whatever I’m preaching on this week!” An avid runner and multiple-marathoner, when David isn’t on the trail or in the pulpit, he enjoys spending time with his wife, Teresa, and their children and grandchildren.

 

Mentioned Resources:

🌐 Dennis' Church: https://fccsaintpaul.org/

🌐 David's Church: https://hacctulsa.org/

📖 Book Referenced: Thriving Church

🎧 Dennis Sanders Podcast: Church and Main

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

 

Supporting Sponsors:

Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.

Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. 

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

 

 

What happens when the church you’ve loved becomes too small for the faith you’ve grown into?

Former Anglican priest Brian E. Pearson joins host Martha Tatarnic on the Future Christian Podcast to discuss his book Talking to the Trees: A Journey Into Soul and his evolving spirituality after nearly forty years in ordained ministry.

In this deeply honest conversation, Brian reflects on his transition from parish life to life on the edges—where faith, doubt, nature, and imagination meet. Together, he and Martha explore what it means to live faith large rather than small, to follow curiosity and courage beyond institutional boundaries, and to discover the sacred in unexpected places.

They talk about:

• Why the edges of faith are often where renewal begins

• The cost and gift of leaving the institutional church

• How nature, ritual, and imagination can nurture a living spirituality

• Storytelling as a pathway to truth and healing

• Courage, curiosity, and the call to live with openness instead of fear

Pearson’s journey invites pastors, seekers, and skeptics alike to consider: What if leaving the church isn’t an ending, but another way of following the Spirit into new life?

 

Mentioned Resources:

🌐 Website: https://www.brianepearson.ca/

📖 His Book: Talking to Trees

🎧 His Podcast: The Mystic Cave

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

 

Supporting Sponsors:

Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.

Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. 

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

 

 

What does it look like for a church’s budget, bylaws, and building to reflect the values of justice and faith?

In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, host Loren Richmond Jr. speaks with Rev. Dr. Sheryl Johnson, theologian, ethicist, and author of Serving Money, Serving God: Aligning Radical Justice, Christian Practice, and Church Life (Fortress Press, 2023). Together they explore how churches can move beyond good intentions to embody justice through everyday practices—especially around finance, fundraising, stewardship, and administration.

They discuss:

• Why church administration is theological, not just logistical

• How job postings and pay scales reveal a congregation’s real values

• The pitfalls of donor-centered fundraising and better alternatives

• Honest communication about money, failure, and hope

• How churches can make ethical decisions about property and buildings

• What it means to see the local church as a foretaste of God’s reign

Sheryl challenges pastors and leaders to re-imagine what “faithful stewardship” truly means in today’s world—where economic justice, transparency, and collaboration are essential for credible ministry.

Sheryl Johnson (she/her) is a settler on Ohlone land and was born in Treaty 1 Territory in what is colonially known as Winnipeg, Canada. She began teaching at Pacific Lutheran Theological Seminary in the fall of 2020, as she was defending her PhD in Theology and Ethics at Graduate Theological Union. Her dissertation focused on the intersections of social justice (racial, economic, gender, etc) and ecclesial practices (specifically stewardship, finance, and polity). A book based on her dissertation, Serving Money, Serving God:  Aligning Radical Justice, Christian Practice, and Church Life, was published by Fortress Press in 2023. Sheryl is an ordained minister in the United Church of Canada, with dual standing in the United Church of Christ. Sheryl has served several congregations, campus ministries, ecumenical advocacy organizations (especially KAIROS: Canadian Ecumenical Justice Initiatives and the Student Christian Movement/World Student Christian Federation), and global church partners (specifically the National Council of Churches of the Philippines and People's Action Forum in Zambia), in addition to her academic work. She completed her M.Div and MPS degrees at Emmanuel College, University of Toronto and also completed a Certificate of Specialization in Theology and Ecology at the University of St. Michael's College during her theological studies. Sheryl is passionate about embodied, participatory, and critical pedagogies and supporting students to make connections between justice commitments and vocational practices. 

 

Mentioned Resources:

🌐 Website: https://www.sheryljohnsonphd.com/

📖 Her Book: https://www.fortresspress.com/store/product/9781506482965/Serving-Money-Serving-God

📖 Her Next Book: The Business of God

🎧 Episodes Referenced: Michelle Van Loon

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

 

Supporting Sponsors:

Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.

Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. 

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

 

 

What’s worth keeping—and what needs to go—when it comes to modern evangelicalism?

In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, host Loren Richmond Jr. talks with author Michelle Van Loon, whose new book Downsizing: Letting Go of Evangelicalism’s Non-Essentials explores the story of evangelical faith from its post–World War II roots to today’s crisis of credibility.

Drawing from her own journey—from a secular Jewish upbringing to decades inside evangelical churches—Van Loon offers an unflinching yet hopeful look at the movement’s excesses, blind spots, and spiritual gifts worth preserving.

Together, Loren and Michelle unpack:

• The distinction between revival and revivalism—and why chasing emotional “mountaintop” moments misses the point.

• The long shadow of leaders like James Dobson and Bill Gothard, and how their influence shaped evangelical culture.

• The roots of authoritarianism and control in religious systems—and what healthy spiritual authority looks like.

• Why humility and listening matter more than programs or platforms.

• What it means to “downsize” faith while still holding on to Jesus.

Van Loon reminds listeners that faith is not about clinging to institutions but about rediscovering the way of Christ—one marked by honesty, empathy, and hope.

👉 Subscribe to the Future Christian Podcast for more honest conversations about leadership, theology, and the future of the church.

 

Michelle Van Loon’s writing is shaped by her deeply rooted faith in Christ, secular Jewish heritage, spiritual hunger, and storyteller’s sensibilities. She has been a regular contributor to Christianity Today magazine, and has articles at a number of other digital sites.. Her eight books include her newest, Downsizing: Letting Go of Evangelicalism's Nonessentials. You can learn more about her work at her website, michellevanloon.com or connect with her at her little corner of Substack, which is called Transforming Words. 

 

Mentioned Resources:

🌐 Website: michellevanloon.com 

📖 Her Book:: https://www.eerdmans.com/9780802884626/downsizing/

🎧 Episodes Referenced: Joelle Kidd

🎧 Episodes Referenced: Robert Schuller

🎧 Episodes Referenced: J. Michael Jordan

🎧 Episodes Referenced: Mike Cosper

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

 

Supporting Sponsors:

Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.

Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. 

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant